Here are the climate-related sections of speeches by MPs during the Commons debate Energy Bill [ Lords ] (Seventeenth sitting).
14:04 Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)
The question we are talking about, which we will perhaps return to later in a slightly different guise, is that of what “maximum economic recovery” means in the context of a net zero world where we have to be very careful about what we extract from the earth. I will remind Members in a later debate that there is widespread consensus across the energy world—in other words, the world—that further oil and gas exploration and extraction, as my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam pointed out this morning, puts us in grave danger of developing a crisis not just of emissions but of economics, as the assets are likely to be found to be hideously overvalued when we get round to the business of reducing the amount of oil and gas we are using, hence affecting the amount that we leave under the ground.
I am sorry that the Minister, who is normally a very measured and reasonable chap, briefly took out his party’s playbook on oil and gas and renewables. I am sure he does not want to be cast alongside the real climate change sceptics and deniers, who use this debate for their own purposes, not for the purposes that he and I agree on—the future of our low-carbon society. I hope the Minister accepts that that is how the question of maximum economic extraction should be cast. I think that, in the end, he will agree that something like our new clause needs to be in place to underpin the wider and longer-term message. I am sorry he is not prepared to accept our new clause as it stands and hope that, as he did with the previous new clause, he will set some heads thinking in his Department about how best we can get out of this issue, which is still with us on the statute book, given that we need to move pretty smartly in the other direction.
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14:13 Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
Additional storage would reduce methane emissions by reducing reliance on gas. Additional storage means less imported gas, and critically it means greater grid resilience in terms of day-to-day operation in meeting peak demand or balancing the intermittency of renewables. Storage also helps in repowering if a black-start scenario is encountered, so it provides additional back-up resilience. If energy security is a key aim of the new Department, surely it would want to embrace the new clause and come forward with a proper electricity storage strategy, given the benefits I have just outlined.
Both hydrogen and ammonia are seen to be important solutions for the hard-to-decarbonise industry sector and transport. It would therefore be beneficial for the UK to consider those mediums with regard to electricity, which is why they are in included in subsection (2) of the new clause.
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Andrew Bowie (Conservative)
I thank the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun for his new clause, but let me first knock one thing on the head. He talked about this Government’s nuclear “obsession”. It is not an obsession; it is investment in one of the most reliable, proven and secure sources of energy that is available right now, key to delivering our net zero goals and to delivering for a more energy-secure future.
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14:22 Andrew Bowie (Conservative)
As an example, we are accelerating the commercialisation of novel technologies through the net zero innovation portfolio. In April this year, we confirmed the final allocations of up to £69 million to accelerate the commercialisation of longer-duration energy storage technologies.
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14:31 Alan Brown
This new clause seeks to require the Secretary of State to set out in legislation a commitment to spend £20 billion on CCUS over the next two decades.
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Alan Brown
The Minister earlier made comments about Scotland not meeting its climate change targets. Given how important carbon capture and storage is for Scotland, we will never meet our climate change targets, particularly the 2030 emission reduction target, without Acorn and carbon capture and storage going ahead and addressing the emissions from Peterhead power station and from the Grangemouth refinery and chemical plant.
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14:38 Andrew Bowie (Conservative)
The new clause seeks to emphasise the Government’s March Budget commitment to spending £20 billion on carbon capture, usage and storage over the next two decades by setting out that commitment in primary legislation. I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s support for the funding and the benefits it will bring in establishing the UK’s CCUS industry and its important role in supporting our net zero ambitions.
None the less, the new clause is inappropriate, as embedding a specific funding amount in primary legislation could result in poor value for money. We want initial development of CCUS in the UK to be delivered with the maximum value for money for taxpayers and consumers within the funding envelope announced in the 2023 Budget. None the less, actual costs are subject to negotiation and inherently uncertain economic variables.
The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun also tabled new clause 47. The new clause seeks to require the Secretary of State to commit to a clear timeline for track 2 CCUS projects in primary legislation. Track 2 relates to the Government’s cluster sequencing process, by which the Government are delivering on their commitment to establish CCUS clusters. Track 1 selected the first two clusters and a reserve cluster, and track 2 will select a further two clusters to be deployed by 2030.
I appreciate the hon. Member’s support for the cluster sequencing process and the Government’s ambition to scale up the deployment of CCUS across the UK, as supported by the carbon dioxide transport and storage provisions in the Bill. None the less, setting out the Government’s commitment for deployment by adhering to a specific timeline in primary legislation would place an unreasonable burden on the Government in designing and delivering the track 2 policy. Such an amendment would be inappropriate, as it would obstruct and restrict the Government’s ability to effectively design the track 2 model in line with our objectives of ensuring that track 2 enhances competition, optimises delivery and represents value for money. Time for proper consideration of the outcome of the recent track 2 expression of interest is needed, and it is crucial to ensure that we are able to meet these objectives.
I once again reassure the hon. Member that the Government remain committed to the deployment of four CCUS clusters, with an ambition to capture and store 20 million tonnes to 30 million tonnes of carbon dioxide per year across the economy by 2030. As I said a second ago, we will publish an update on the next steps for track 2 later in the summer. I politely and humbly ask that the hon. Member withdraw his amendments.
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Dr Whitehead
It was just a crashing nonsense, frankly, that the Government decided they would have track 1, track 2 and possibly further tracks, and then, as far as track 1 was concerned, declare of the Acorn project, “Well, this particular cluster is a reserve”, as if it were highly commended in best of breed but did not quite win the prize. The Acorn project, the Scottish cluster, is absolutely essential to the development of CCUS in the UK, particularly in enabling the UK to develop facilities for a combination of barged and piped CCUS from parts of the country that do not have their own industrial cluster immediately handy, but may want to develop CCUS in a very proactive way.
If the Acorn project is supposed to be a reserve, what is that supposed to mean? Is it that if another cluster turns out not to want to proceed, that cluster slips in, or was it just a device to say, “Actually, we have a pretty feeble competition going on here, and we don’t want to completely disappoint the Scottish cluster, but we are going to have to disappoint them in practice because we are not going to advance them to track 1. Talking about tracks, we have our mind on a particular track of two clusters here, two clusters there, and then we get to 2030.” The answer is just to let the clusters go ahead together, because that is what we will need in the not-too-distant future for CCS, hydrogen and other developments.
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14:46 Dr Whitehead
I know that uncertainty is beginning to build in the Scottish cluster. The firms that are investing are asking, “Well, what’s going on? Are the Government in favour of it or not? Are they supporting it or not? Should we put in our investment early, late or not at all? If we do put it in, how can we be certain that it will come to fruition in the timescale that we thought it would when we first committed to invest in that area?” It has very real consequences for investment in CCS, hydrogen and various other things.
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14:53 Alan Brown
With the leave of the Committee, I will not push the new clauses to Divisions, having—belatedly—read the room today. I am starting to catch on that they might be defeated. I want to make the point behind new clause 47: I want to see that certainty for the category 2 clusters and greater support going forward, because we only want to see the Acorn CCS cluster delivered. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
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14:54 Andrew Bowie (Conservative)
I hope I have reassured right hon. and hon. Members that the Department is already carefully considering all these factors before coming to a decision on the trial. Importantly, we will be closely examining the evidence and outcomes of the gas transporters’ engagement with local authorities and consumers. Undertaking a formal consultation, however, would duplicate the work that the Department and the gas transporters are already doing and could delay important milestones on the way to these trials and net zero. Given that detailed explanation, I hope the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun might feel willing to withdraw the motion.
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15:10 Dr Whitehead
“Parties to the 2015 Paris Agreement pledged to limit global warming to well below 2 °C and to pursue efforts to limit the temperature increase to 1.5 °C relative to pre-industrial times. However, fossil fuels continue to dominate the global energy system and a sharp decline in their use must be realized to keep the temperature increase below 1.5 °C.”
In parallel with that article, the hyper-authoritative International Energy Agency, which has not in the past been at the forefront of radical action on climate change targets, produced “Net Zero by 2050: A Roadmap for the Global Energy Sector”. It concluded in its pathway to 2050:
“Beyond projects already committed as of 2021, there are no new oil and gas fields approved for development in our pathway, and no new coal mines or mine extensions are required. The unwavering policy focus on climate change in the net zero pathway results in a sharp decline in fossil fuel demand, meaning that the focus for oil and gas producers switches entirely to output—and emissions reductions—from the operation of existing assets.”
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15:14 Andrew Bowie (Conservative)
The “Powering Up Britain” plan set an ambitious pathway for the UK to move to clean, cheap power and lead the world in moving to net zero by 2050. The UK has decarbonised more than any other major economy since 1990, but oil and gas still supply about three quarters of the UK’s overall energy use today.
Our aim is to accelerate the reduction in oil and gas use. We recognise, however, that they remain essential to modern life, and will do so for many years to come, not just for energy, but to manufacture materials such as chemicals, plastics and steel. We want to avoid an increased reliance on foreign oil and gas imports as we move to net zero. Surely that is brought home by Putin’s illegal invasion of Ukraine, which reminded us all of the importance of a secure and resilient energy system. We are determined to power Britain from Britain.
We are a net importer of oil and gas and a rapidly declining producer, so new oil and gas development and licences will simply reduce the fall in the UK supply; they do not increase it above existing levels and will not increase emissions above legally binding carbon budgets. As someone who was born, brought up, schooled and went to university in, and now represents, the north-east of Scotland, I can tell the hon. Member for Southampton, Test that the North sea basin is in decline. Even with continued exploration and development, UK oil and gas production is expected to decline by 7% a year. Contrary to what the hon. Gentleman said, that decline is faster than the average global decline needed to align with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change 1.5° pathways.
We already lead the world, therefore, and are already moving beyond what we need to do to reach our commitments regarding the climate goals that we have signed up to. By preventing the issuing of exploration and production licences, however, Labour’s policy—this new clause—would cause a faster decline in UK oil and gas production. That would lead to increased liquid natural gas imports, which are less secure and more carbon intensive, and provide no tax revenue or employment benefit to the United Kingdom.
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15:24 Dr Whitehead
New clause 56 relates to perhaps a rather more immediately clear position. If we are to move towards a sustainable low-carbon economy in this country—I am sure that the Minister is absolutely at one with me in wishing that that would come about—we must ensure that we have available to us all of the sources of renewable energy that we can get hold of to provide the amount of renewable generation necessary for clean energy provision for our country. There is a divergence between the Opposition and the Government on the dates by which this would be achieved. The Government would like to see our energy supply system effectively decarbonised by 2035; Labour thinks that should be 2030, and that the resources and arrangements should be put in place to allow that to happen.
One particular criticism that we have of the Government’s 2035 target is that, while they have some good ideas on how to make that happen in the abstract, they are very lacking in how to go about the process of quickly reaching a low-carbon energy economy in the not-too-distant future. Indeed, a Climate Change Committee report will come out very shortly that may reflect the Government’s lack of preparedness to do what they say they will about low carbon energy for the future.
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15:15 Andrew Bowie (Conservative)
I thank the hon. Member for Southampton, Test for tabling the new clause. We are in agreement on most things, including the importance of onshore wind to meeting our net zero and carbon budget ambitions, but I am not convinced that the new clause is necessary.
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15:45 Andrew Bowie (Conservative)
There should be no doubt of the value that the Government place on a strong renewable power sector, which includes onshore wind. Over recent years, we have committed to delivering deep decarbonisation of the grid by implementing new legislation, stimulating growth through ambitious policy pledges, and bolstering growth through the provision of financial support. I very much doubt it, but I hope that the hon. Gentleman is reassured by the actions that we are taking, which will facilitate the growth of onshore wind while ensuring, importantly, that local communities continue to have a say on their area.
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15:50 Andrew Western (Labour)
Barrier No. 2 is the community consent clause that the Government introduced in 2015, which creates an absurd position. I have said in the House that the planning system should be scrapped because it inhibits development in a way that is totally unnecessary, or prohibits it in a way that is damaging to our economy, and in this case to our future renewable energy security. The idea that one person can object to national infrastructure of that importance is frankly ridiculous.
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