Energy Security - 13th January 2010

Here are the climate-related sections of speeches by MPs during the Commons debate Energy Security.

Full text: https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2010-01-13/debates/10011369000001/EnergySecurity

Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)

That this House notes the impending retirement of over 20 gigawatts of UK generating capacity, the ongoing depletion of North Sea oil and gas reserves and the nation’s growing dependency on imported fossil fuels; further notes the high and volatile prices of those imports and the threats to the constancy and adequacy of their supply; regrets that British energy policy has failed to change with these circumstances and that, consequently, the nation’s energy security has been compromised, as exemplified by the low levels of UK gas storage capacity; acknowledges that fundamental reforms to the energy policy framework are required in order to attract the investment required to guarantee reliable, affordable and sustainable energy supplies; calls upon the Government to take immediate action to ensure diversity in new electricity generating capacity and adequate levels of natural gas storage; and, recognising that energy efficiency is the most cost-effective means of meeting Britain’s energy needs, further calls upon the Government to implement policies capable of accelerating the deployment of efficiency improvements to millions of domestic and non-domestic buildings, in particular to the homes of the growing number of fuel-poor households.

Greg Clark

British energy policy has been exposed as out of date. It was designed 25 years ago for a world in which Britain had an excess of generating capacity, where we enjoyed the security of growing North sea oil and gas production, and where concerns about local pollution and international climate change were not as intense as they are now. However, power plants get old, fossil fuel reserves dwindle away, and pollution builds up to crisis proportions. The Government have had ample warning on all those fronts.

Let me explain where that leaves us in terms of the main areas of energy use—first, electricity. Back in July the Department of Energy and Climate Change unveiled its energy plan for the coming decade. It is good that there is such a plan and it is perhaps the most important document that the Department has published to date, but it contained a dark secret. It revealed that Ministers were expecting black-outs across Britain in the years ahead.

Greg Clark

There will be a future for UK coal within that, but it depends on a number of factors. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that we import a lot of coal from Russia. Coal is clearly more readily available and easily stocked than gas, so it contributes to energy security. I share his concerns about the safety situation there. We want to ensure that we operate using supplies that come from sources we can be proud of and confident about. I hope that in due course we can have more of a source of supply from this country as well. However, that depends on making progress on carbon capture and storage. If we subscribe, rightly, to a set of emissions targets that require CO 2 emissions to come down by 80 per cent. by 2050, we will need to make a breakthrough on CCS if we are to be able to use coal as an addition to our diversity of supply.

John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)

The hon. Gentleman has rightly mentioned diversity of supply on several occasions. In that regard, will he clarify what his party’s views will be in respect of offshore wind and marine tidal renewable energy? The July White Paper calls for, from memory, some 33 GW of generation. Much of that development is taking place in my constituency, with the potential for a great many jobs to replace those at Dounreay, which is being decommissioned. There is obviously uncertainty over the long term, and it would be most helpful if he could clarify his position.

Greg Clark

I cannot give a commitment that charges should be equal, but I recognise the point that the hon. Gentleman makes. It is no good developing plants that generate significant capacity offshore if we cannot then bring that energy onshore. We have suggested that the National Grid—it is keen to do this—should build its onshore network offshore so that it is easier for promoters of renewable energy offshore, whether wind, wave or tidal, to get it to where the customers are.

Greg Clark

On carbon capture and storage, I am afraid that the Government have dithered; I take no pleasure in pointing that out. In 2007, there was the announcement of a token competition for just one demonstration plant. Last year, there was a much more encouraging sign from the Secretary of State, after he took over, when he stood up in this House and made a bold announcement on CCS. There is to be an expanded demonstration plant programme—

Greg Clark

Indeed. There will presumably be a second competition to embrace a wider range of CCS technology, for which Conservative Members have been calling for some time. However, despite the first competition having been announced in 2007, the winner has yet to be announced. The indications are that it will not be until 2011 at the earliest. As for the second competition, it is not even open yet. If I am wrong I shall be delighted to be corrected by the Secretary of State, because I would welcome greater progress.

I should mention a third competition, of course. As the Secretary of State knows, the one taking place in several countries and run by the European Union managed to announce the winners by autumn last year. I would simply observe that any organisation that can be outpaced by the European Commission has major problems. Unfortunately, foot dragging and bureaucracy is what we have come to expect from this Administration. The chaotic history of their policy on CCS has turned what could be a leading position for Britain into one in which we now lag behind China, Canada, Germany and Belgium.

Mr. Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth, East) (Con)

In the spirit of being constructive, may I urge my hon. Friend to urge the Secretary of State to include gas in carbon capture and storage? We are currently debating that issue in Committee. We are talking about CCS for coal, which is absolutely right, but the Government are adamant that they will not include gas in the levy that will shortly be rolled out. Why are we not looking to the future and ensuring that the coal-fired power stations, which will all close in 2020, are replaced with gas-fired power stations? We should be thinking about CCS for gas as well.

Greg Clark

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. If we want to establish leadership on that, it is important that for demonstration purposes we examine all the technologies that are available. If, as I believe, we will not reduce our dependence on gas, it will be important in meeting our emissions target that we can capture carbon dioxide emissions from gas in due course. The Secretary of State is a reasonable man, and often when amendments are tabled he undertakes to consider them carefully. I hope that he will do so on this occasion and reflect on whether the matter can be included in the competition. That would be a good thing to do.

Shona McIsaac

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his generosity. Is he aware that my constituency is probably the one with the highest number of gas power stations in the country? Today, the local authority is giving its seal of approval to a biomass power station, which is going to create enough renewable energy to supply more than 500,000 homes. I therefore know quite a lot about the energy issue in this country. The hon. Gentleman must stop scaring the British public. There is far more gas in storage than he says there is, and far more gas that is easily available from the North sea and other sources. Will he stop scaring people about the lack of gas, because it is simply not true?

Greg Clark

When asked what contingency plans they had for such an eventuality, the UK Government said that they did not have any because they did not think the situation was that urgent. That answer should fill us with dread, but it is one that we have heard time after time. It is symptomatic of an attitude that in the past has been complacent and has not involved the action that we could have foreseen was needed. It explains, among other things, why we do not have enough gas storage capacity. It also explains why we do not have an adequate margin of generating capacity for electricity in this country and why we have not made sufficient progress on carbon capture and storage, nuclear and renewable energy. It is why we are wasting the chance to insulate our homes and stop wasting energy; we may discuss that issue later in the debate.

Mr. Cash

I have been very enthusiastic about the Secretary of State’s comments on carbon capture and the development that is essential in that area, but so far—I may be anticipating him—he has not said anything about onshore wind farms. He knows that the Under-Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, the hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Kidney), who is sitting next to him on the Front Bench, and I have a boundary issue regarding several onshore wind farms, and there is deep opposition to them. Will the Secretary of State therefore be good enough to explain why Severn Trent, for example, is encouraged to develop onshore wind farms simply because it happens to own land—irrespective of either the amount of wind or the location of those projects? Will he get that policy right and stop promoting those ridiculous onshore farms?

Ed Miliband (Labour)

I agree with my hon. Friend. The European supergrid is an exciting prospect that will obviously require co-operation in Europe—as well as sitting in the European Parliament with people who tend to believe that climate change is real and happening, rather than those who do not.

Simon Hughes

I have spoken to my hon. Friend and I disagree with his analysis. That is not the official position of our party, just as there are members of the hon. Gentleman’s party who do not always adopt his official position—not least on issues connected with climate change and the Copenhagen conference, which we debated recently.

Simon Hughes

Obviously, we are always going to be interdependent with other countries around us and throughout the rest of the world. Our energy security is dependent on what happens in the rest of the world, and, sadly, there have been some disastrous actions in recent years. The invasion of Iraq has been harmful in this regard, as it had a knock-on effect on energy supplies; oil production in Iraq is now up, but not up to pre-war levels. There is also a lack of support, certainly from the Conservative party, for a European energy policy co-ordinated in such a way as to bring us all together. From what I have heard from the hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells, his party’s ideas are entirely inappropriate to meet the challenges of the next decades. The Liberal Democrats believe we need not only to be firm in dealing with emissions and climate change, because we must have a zero-emissions policy and a carbon neutral, or zero-carbon, future, but to have an integrated European future. If we are really going to achieve energy security, we not only have to produce as much of our own energy as possible, but we have to be enthusiastic leaders in the campaign for a European supergrid so that the energy produced throughout Europe—whether from solar power in the Mediterranean, hydroelectric power in Norway, tidal power in Scotland, or renewables throughout our country—can be shared to give us all collective security. The UK should aim to be more energy independent, but the best security for all of us is for the whole of Europe to become energy self-sufficient. That is what will give us the security we need. If the Conservative party were a bit more enthusiastic about Europe in this context, that might give consumers and industry a little more hope of the prospect of a secure future if—although I do not think this will happen—it were to form the Government in the near future.

Malcolm Wicks (Croydon, North) (Lab)

When the world comes out of economic recession, the global demand for energy will resume its previous trajectory and, depending on our success in respect of climate change, the International Energy Agency estimates that global energy demand could increase between 20 and 40 per cent. by 2030.

We need diversity, and we need to ensure that in future, despite the trend towards import dependency, we secure as much of our energy indigenously, from within the British isles and our seas, as possible. That is a recipe for the Secretary of State’s policy on renewables. The development towards 15 per cent. of our energy coming from renewables by 2020 is as much about energy security as it is about climate change. The two go together.

There is a role for coal. To ignore coal would be a national security disaster—hence colleagues talk perfectly properly about the importance of carbon capture and storage. Nuclear must play a key role. It is important for climate change and for the nation’s security. In my report to the Prime Minister, to which the Secretary of State kindly referred, I go as far as to say that if by 2030 some 35 to 40 per cent. of our electricity was coming from nuclear, that would be sensible for the nation’s security as well as for global warming. There is far more that we can do to reduce energy demand, not just in housing but across the industrial process and in transport.

Mr. John Gummer (Suffolk, Coastal) (Con)

How do we organise ourselves so that there is the diversity that we need, not only in terms of supply but as between the various forms of generation? I worry that we have had too much emphasis on process and far too little on outcomes. I am a great believer in renewable energy; I do not think anybody could criticise me on that score. Ultimately, however, we should be aiming to have the most cost-effective way of getting energy security and lowering our emissions. It may be better to provide more support for low-carbon generation than to put all our eggs in the basket of renewables. I say that not because I want fewer renewables but because we have to get there quickly. I would like to see a greater emphasis on outcomes than on process. For example, people in the British wind energy industry often argue on the basis of how wonderful wind is. I want to have the lowest carbon production of energy that we can have—I do not mind how we do it. Tomorrow the mix will be different from what it is today, but let us ensure that we do not miss the important issue, which is how we get the energy we need.

I say to the Government that they should move faster and accept that they are behindhand because of what has happened so far. I say to members of my own party that we have to use every mechanism possible. I say to the Liberal Democrats that it is not acceptable to go on with a theological position that is intolerable, intolerant and unacceptable—but they are, after all, Liberal Democrats, so we expect that from them. They will pay a big price for it at the next election, when people realise that the real opponents of combating climate change are Liberal Democrats.

Mr. Morley

It is acceptable if gas supplies are maintained. In fact, the hon. Gentleman’s colleague, the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey gave a good, detailed analysis of the capacity and reserves, which I encourage the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) to look at. That demonstrates that diversifying our supply and moving towards a low-carbon supply is good not only in relation to climate change but in addressing the potential problems of security of supply, fuel poverty, jobs and investment. Moving towards a low-carbon economy has a range of advantages.

Incidentally, I welcome the improvement in cold weather payments: my constituency will be receiving two weeks’ payments. I know that this is not the responsibility of my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, but there are some eligibility anomalies, because some people on disability living allowance do not receive the payments. Those anomalies need to be addressed in discussions with other Departments.

We need to encourage more renewables. I welcome what has been done, including the recent announcement of the enormous expansion of offshore. That is of particular local interest in my constituency. The Humber is very well placed to be a centre for the construction and maintenance of offshore wind farms, and for CCS and biomass development. Jobs in engineering and support go with those things, not least in the construction of the steel that will go into the towers that will be built. Those developments will mean jobs and investment, much to the benefit of local people.

Mark Hendrick (Labour)

We know that energy production is a major contributor to climate change. It is therefore impossible to discuss energy without referring to the impact on our environment, and ultimately on human welfare. As it is such a huge part of the climate change problem, energy must be at the heart of any solution.

Mark Hendrick (Labour)

To address the twin challenges of energy security and climate change, the UK must implement various measures. Energy must be used more efficiently and we should have a diverse supply of low and zero-carbon energy sources. It is reported that International Energy Agency analysis suggests that serious action on climate change requires a

It is important that we should act as part of a united Europe. It is in the interests of all major consumers to have a predictable and rules-based approach to managing energy security and climate change. It is only through co-ordinated action with our European neighbours that we can achieve that. For example, Russia is dependant on Europe as a consumer market, with 80 per cent. of its oil exports and 60 per cent. of its gas exports coming into the EU. It is essential that Europe acts collectively to maximise that consumer influence. Similarly, Europe will have the weight to negotiate with China, India, Japan and the USA only if it is a united Europe. Indeed, we recently saw action of that kind at Copenhagen.

Energy has been at the heart of the European Union since its conception, and it remains there today. In 2007, EU leaders recognised the twin challenges of climate change and energy security, and agreed to some laudable goals on energy usage, renewable energy and reducing emissions. Europe also co-operates on investments, technology transfer, mutual access to markets and predictability in commercial relations, particularly with countries such as Russia and others in northern Africa, the Gulf region and central Asia. The UK has played a central role in shaping that European action and is at the heart of international agreements. I join other hon. Members in welcoming the plans to develop a European supergrid.

Mr. Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP)

Several speakers have talked about the oil and gas industry in the North sea, but I would caution Members about writing it off. The Energy and Climate Change Committee report shows that this industry still has a future, not only because there is a large amount of oil and gas in the North sea, but because there is an opportunity to use the skills developed in the North sea to move forward into renewables industries, particularly offshore wind and tidal and wave power, which could be the key to much of our energy for the future.

In Committee, I proposed an amendment to the Energy Bill to try to get the Government to look at gas combined capture and storage. The Government opposed and defeated it. I entirely understand the Government’s wish to concentrate on coal in the first instance, and I understand, as do all members of the Committee, the need to get CCS for coal, but I do not understand the refusal even to consider gas for the near future. Given the amount of gas that we still use in generation, it seems to me that it is going to be part of our energy mix for the foreseeable future, so we are going to have to decarbonise gas as well. Even at this late stage, I ask the Government to think again.

Charles Hendry

My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South (Richard Ottaway) rightly focused on the investment that has been made and the vital contribution that liquefied natural gas terminals have made to our energy security. We heard a very thoughtful speech from the hon. Member for Preston (Mr. Hendrick), and the hon. Member for Angus (Mr. Weir) brought us back to gas when he talked about carbon capture and storage. We supported him in a Division on the issue in the Energy Bill Committee yesterday, and I am sorry that we could not persuade the Government to take a broader view on CCS and help Britain take a big step forward in that area.

The Secretary of State also referred to the recently published national policy statement, as if that will put right gas storage. We have done a quick check, and of the 675 pages of policy statement that the Energy and Climate Change Committee is going through, seven—1 per cent. of them—relate to gas storage. That is not quite the commitment that we are looking for.

Mr. Kidney

Our plans commit us to tackling climate change, ensuring security of energy supplies and keeping energy costs affordable. We want to ensure that all consumers have a fair deal. As everyone in the debate has said, the key to security of energy supply is diversity of energy supplies and sources. Last July’s transition plan outlines how nuclear power, alongside a sevenfold increase in renewables and investment in clean fossil fuels, will help us to achieve a low-carbon future and secure the UK’s energy supply.

Let us not forget the contribution that commercial businesses need to make to avert costs in energy and reduce their carbon emissions. We help with expert advice, interest-free loans and mechanisms such as climate change agreements and the emissions trading scheme. The right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer), who is no longer in the Chamber—

Mr. Kidney

Many hon. Members referred to the contribution of renewables, including my right hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Mr. Morley) and my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, South. Most of those who spoke in the debate gave a warm welcome to last week’s announcement of the round 3 offshore wind licences. This country was already the world leader in connected energy from offshore wind, and our performance in that area is now putting a considerable distance between ourselves and the rest of the world. But we do not rely solely on wind as a source of renewable energy, important though it is. There is also biomass, hydro, solar, heat pumps and many other sources that we promote. I noted the considerable enthusiasm around the Chamber for microgeneration, and a general welcome for feed-in tariffs, which at long last will begin in this country this April.

Many hon. Members mentioned the importance of carbon capture and storage. What is so crucial about CCS is that, as we invest more and more in renewables, which produce electricity for the national grid intermittently, we will need the back-up that reliable sources such as coal and gas can offer. The consequences of their carbon emissions are too great to contemplate, however, without a means of abating those emissions. That is where CCS will be so important, which is why it is good that our Government are now committed to four CCS demonstration projects on a commercial scale.

See all Parliamentary Speeches Mentioning Climate